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YuriW
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Download bond price

I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there is a way in Quicken download it's current price. Is there? Thx YuriW

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TomYoung
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 14, 12:56 pm, YuriW <yuri.weinst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there is a way in
Quicken download it's current price.

Is there?
Probably not, unless the bond trades on an exchange using a ticker

symbol.

Tom Young

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

YuriW wrote:

Quote:

I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there is
a way in
Quicken download it's current price.

If you hold the bond at a brokerage from which you can download,
they may (should, I think) download your bond prices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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TomYoung
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:

Quote:

YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there is
a way in
Quicken download it's current price.

If you hold the bond at a brokerage from which you can download,
they may (should, I think) download your bond prices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade) and bond prices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

Tom Young

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

TomYoung wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com
wrote:
YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there
is
a way in
Quicken download it's current price.

If you hold the bond at a brokerage from which you can
download,
they may (should, I think) download your bond prices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade) and bond
prices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

I've never been able to pin down the specifics of this, but I
frequently don't get bond prices when I think they've changed.
Anecdotally, I noticed that it seemed it was the days I had no
transactions downloaded that I didn't get bond prices ... but I
had recently been coming to think that was not likely the
criteria. But I put out the caveat, since I do know there are
days when I don't get bond prices ... just not necessarily why.

[My bonds are held at Smith Barney.]

--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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YuriW
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 15, 2:11 pm, TomYoung <tgyo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:

YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GObondand wondering if there is
a way in
Quickendownloadit's currentprice.

If you hold thebondat a brokerage from which you candownload,
they may (should, I think)downloadyourbondprices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade) andbondprices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

Tom Young

Thank you all.

But *don't* have symbols defined in Quicken, so how does it know the
prices?

YuriW

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

YuriW wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 15, 2:11 pm, TomYoung <tgyo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com
wrote:

YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GObondand wondering if there is
a way in
Quickendownloadit's currentprice.

If you hold thebondat a brokerage from which you
candownload,
they may (should, I think)downloadyourbondprices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade)
andbondprices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

Tom Young

Thank you all.

But *don't* have symbols defined in Quicken, so how does it
know the
prices?

Downloads from financial institutions link to Quicken securities
by CUSIP number; once you have told Quicken that your Quicken
security, ABC, is the same as the downloaded security, American
Broadcasting Company, Quicken knows the CUSIP number of the
Quicken security and uses that CUSIP number to know which future
downloaded transactions, and holdings, pertain to which Quicken
security.

Each download from your investment financial institution should
include your holdings at that fi; and the holdings should
include the price/share of each security, as of the date of the
holdings.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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Oilcan
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

John,

So if I understand you correctly. If I own a bond and it is held in a
brokerage account, I could possibly get a price update - at least on the
days where there was activity - if Quicken asks me to match the security
between the download and Quicken. Otherwise if it does not, I would
have to manually input the price. Also there is now way to get a price
of a bond held outside of a broker. I base this on the fact that I
can't enter a CUSIP number (even though I could find one) into Quicken.

Oilcan

-----Original Message-----
From: John Pollard [mailto:invalid@invalid.com]
Posted At: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:00 AM
Posted To: alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
Conversation: Download bond price
Subject: Re: Download bond price

YuriW wrote:

Quote:

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

Oilcan wrote:

Quote:

If you are already successfully downloading transactions from
your broker, you have already matched the downloaded securities
with your Quicken securities, so Quicken already knows the CUSIP
number for the securities held at your broker.

Yes, you can get prices for any of those securities, but I can
not tell you exactly what other conditions may apply. I get
bond prices for the bonds I own at Smith Barney as a result of
downloading, but I think not with every download.

Quote:

Also there is now way to
get a price of a bond held outside of a broker. I base this
on the
fact that I can't enter a CUSIP number (even though I could
find one)
into Quicken.

I know of no way to do this.

I think the only other electronic sources of bond prices (other
than your own broker) must be paid for. And even then, there is
no guarantee that source will provide prices in a manner usable
by Quicken.

[Naturally you can manually enter bond prices: there is no need
for a ticker symbol or a CUSIP number to do that.]

[At one time, the CUSIP number field was visible and editable in
Quicken, but I think that's no longer the case. Even so, just
having the CUSIP number would only be part of the problem of
getting prices for bonds not held at an institution that
downloaded to Quicken using OFX.]

Quote:

-----Original Message-----
From: John Pollard [mailto:invalid@invalid.com]
Posted At: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:00 AM
Posted To: alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
Conversation: Download bond price
Subject: Re: Download bond price

YuriW wrote:
On Apr 15, 2:11 pm, TomYoung <tgyo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com
wrote:

YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GObondand wondering if there
is
a way in
Quickendownloadit's currentprice.

If you hold thebondat a brokerage from which you
candownload,
they may (should, I think)downloadyourbondprices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.

I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade)
andbondprices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

Tom Young

Thank you all.

But *don't* have symbols defined in Quicken, so how does it
know the
prices?

Downloads from financial institutions link to Quicken
securities
by CUSIP number; once you have told Quicken that your Quicken
security, ABC, is the same as the downloaded security,
American
Broadcasting Company, Quicken knows the CUSIP number of the
Quicken security and uses that CUSIP number to know which
future
downloaded transactions, and holdings, pertain to which
Quicken
security.

Each download from your investment financial institution
should
include your holdings at that fi; and the holdings should
include the price/share of each security, as of the date of
the
holdings.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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TomYoung
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 15, 2:52 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:

Quote:

TomYoung wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:32 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com
wrote:
YuriW wrote:
I have purchased California GO bond and wondering if there
is
a way in
Quicken download it's current price.

If you hold the bond at a brokerage from which you can
download,
they may (should, I think) download your bond prices ... but
possibly only when there are also actual transactions to
download.
I gave it a try with one of my accounts (Etrade) and bond
prices
*were* updated even though there were no transactions.

I've never been able to pin down the specifics of this, but I
frequently don't get bond prices when I think they've changed.
Anecdotally, I noticed that it seemed it was the days I had no
transactions downloaded that I didn't get bond prices ... but I
had recently been coming to think that was not likely the
criteria. But I put out the caveat, since I do know there are
days when I don't get bond prices ... just not necessarily why.

Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully from Etrade

on days when there were no transactions, today I had no success in
downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
transactions. Who knows?

Tom Young

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

TomYoung wrote:

Quote:

Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully
from Etrade
on days when there were no transactions, today I had no
success in
downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
transactions. Who knows?

Thanks for the update. Perhaps in time, with enough input, we
will be able to figure out what the requirements are to get
price updates from financial institutions.

Just to throw another monkey-wrench into the works: there is
more than one way for an fi to supply prices. And it seems to
me that there shouldn't be any need for multiple ways, but I am
definitely seeing the differences.

For securities like publicly tranded bonds, I get prices from
the broker where I own the bonds ... even if there are not
transactions involving.

(As I mentioned before, I used to think I needed to have at
least one transaction of some type - even if not for any bond -
that would download for the fi, if I was to see any prices for
securities owned at the fi whose prices were not available via
Quicken quote download ... but I have since determined that is
not the criteria).

But I have other financial institutions where I own securities
whose prices can not be downloaded via Quicken "quote download"
.... and which can not be updated by any download that does not
include any transactions. TIAA-CREF is one such institution.

TIAA-CREF is not very user friendly, but at some point (I think
prior to the time when Quicken would derive price updates from
downloaded "holdings"), TIAA-CREF decided that they would
provide prices for their "private" securities by downloading an
"Add Shares" transaction for zero shares but with a price/share.
When such a transaction is "Accepted", its price/share will
update your Quicken price history. You can then delete the
transaction, and the price history price will remain.

My suspicion is that TIAA-CREF can not rely on the download of
holdings to get their security prices updated, because their
securities do not have CUSIP numbers.

Perhaps new updates to the OFX specs will allow institutions
like TIAA-CREF to have their downloaded holdings make
price/share updates available to Personal Financial Software
without the need for phoney Add Shares transactions ... and
maybe, just maybe, institutions like TIAA-CREF will take
advantage of the opportunity.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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TomYoung
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 21, 6:17 pm, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:

Quote:

TomYoung wrote:
Well, after a week of downloading bond prices successfully
from Etrade
on days when there were no transactions, today I had no
success in
downloading bond prices from Etrade, another day with no
transactions. Who knows?

Thanks for the update. Perhaps in time, with enough input, we
will be able to figure out what the requirements are to get
price updates from financial institutions.

Just to throw another monkey-wrench into the works: there is
more than one way for an fi to supply prices. And it seems to
me that there shouldn't be any need for multiple ways, but I am
definitely seeing the differences.

For securities like publicly tranded bonds, I get prices from
the broker where I own the bonds ... even if there are not
transactions involving.

(As I mentioned before, I used to think I needed to have at
least one transaction of some type - even if not for any bond -
that would download for the fi, if I was to see any prices for
securities owned at the fi whose prices were not available via
Quicken quote download ... but I have since determined that is
not the criteria).

But I have other financial institutions where I own securities
whose prices can not be downloaded via Quicken "quote download"
... and which can not be updated by any download that does not
include any transactions. TIAA-CREF is one such institution.

TIAA-CREF is not very user friendly, but at some point (I think
prior to the time when Quicken would derive price updates from
downloaded "holdings"), TIAA-CREF decided that they would
provide prices for their "private" securities by downloading an
"Add Shares" transaction for zero shares but with a price/share.
When such a transaction is "Accepted", its price/share will
update your Quicken price history. You can then delete the
transaction, and the price history price will remain.

My suspicion is that TIAA-CREF can not rely on the download of
holdings to get their security prices updated, because their
securities do not have CUSIP numbers.

Perhaps new updates to the OFX specs will allow institutions
like TIAA-CREF to have their downloaded holdings make
price/share updates available to Personal Financial Software
without the need for phoney Add Shares transactions ... and
maybe, just maybe, institutions like TIAA-CREF will take
advantage of the opportunity.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 - 4/22 when I
did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns out.

An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't* come from
Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a customer
profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers that it
uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with the lack
of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on my end,
but with Intuit.

Tom Young

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

TomYoung wrote:

Quote:

I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 -
4/22 when I
did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns
out.

An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't*
come from
Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a
customer
profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers
that it
uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with
the lack
of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on
my end,
but with Intuit.

Based solely on the info you've provided, I tend to think you're
jumping to a conclusion. It certainly is possible that Intuit
is getting it wrong, but if so, they're doing it in an uncommon
and unlikely way.

As far as I know, the OFX specs (that control the way in which
downloads are done and their content) has always allowed for
downloads from investment financial institutions to contain
"holdings" in addition to transactions. And I think the OFX
spec actually recommends that holdings be provided.

It is the downloaded holdings that contain prices for the
securities held at that institution, and every time I've ever
checked, my downloads do include those holdings (including the
prices).

The holdings also include an "as of" date, and that date is not
always the date of the download. I downloaded from Smith Barney
on April 23rd at about 7:30pm CDT. But my downloaded holdings
were dated April 22, so the bonds I hold at Smith Barney did not
get prices for the 23rd. [I did not set the download up as a
test, so I did not check to see if my prices for the 22nd were
changed as a result of the download.]

I certainly don't attribute that lack of bond prices on the 23rd
to Intuit; if Smith Barney did not provide holdings for the date
I downloaded, Intuit could hardly have compensated for that.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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TomYoung
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Download bond price

On Apr 25, 6:14 am, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:

Quote:

TomYoung wrote:
I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 -
4/22 when I
did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it turns
out.

An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't*
come from
Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a
customer
profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers
that it
uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with
the lack
of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something on
my end,
but with Intuit.

Based solely on the info you've provided, I tend to think you're
jumping to a conclusion. It certainly is possible that Intuit
is getting it wrong, but if so, they're doing it in an uncommon
and unlikely way.

As far as I know, the OFX specs (that control the way in which
downloads are done and their content) has always allowed for
downloads from investment financial institutions to contain
"holdings" in addition to transactions. And I think the OFX
spec actually recommends that holdings be provided.

It is the downloaded holdings that contain prices for the
securities held at that institution, and every time I've ever
checked, my downloads do include those holdings (including the
prices).

The holdings also include an "as of" date, and that date is not
always the date of the download. I downloaded from Smith Barney
on April 23rd at about 7:30pm CDT. But my downloaded holdings
were dated April 22, so the bonds I hold at Smith Barney did not
get prices for the 23rd. [I did not set the download up as a
test, so I did not check to see if my prices for the 22nd were
changed as a result of the download.]

I certainly don't attribute that lack of bond prices on the 23rd
to Intuit; if Smith Barney did not provide holdings for the date
I downloaded, Intuit could hardly have compensated for that.

I may have the *wrong* conclusion but if so it's because what the tech
told me was wrong, not because I'm jumping to it.

He was very clear - but maybe incorrect - that prices came from
Intuit, and when he told me that I expressed my astonishment that for
the 1st 5 days of price downloads that Intuit would have the exact
same price as Etrade. (I logged into Etrade and checked their prices
after Quicken's One Step Update.) For some reason I thought Etrade
provided ending prices based on some Etrade algorithm (Scientific Wild-
Assed Guess) but he told me that Etrade pulls their prices from
Bloomberg and that Intuit probably does the same, hence the prices
would match.

I've never looked looked at the OFX specs so I'm not in a position to
answer your response with any specifics, but the information from the
FI clearly goes through the Intuit servers so there's at least the
possibility the Intuit can insert a price.

Maybe we should establish a database of prices of widely-held bonds
from different FI's and see if we can crack the code.

Tom Young

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John Pollard
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Download bond price

TomYoung wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 25, 6:14 am, "John Pollard" <inva...@invalid.com
wrote:
TomYoung wrote:
I emailed Etrade to ask why I didn't get prices for 4/21 -
4/22 when I
did get prices for 4/14 - 4/18, and today (4/23), as it
turns
out.

An Etrade tech person called me and said that prices *don't*
come from
Etrade, but from Intuit. He believes that Intuit sets up a
customer
profile when it queries a FI and records CUSIP identifiers
that it
uses to pass prices down to Quicken. Ergo, the problem with
the lack
of price downloads was not with Etrade, not with something
on
my end,
but with Intuit.

Based solely on the info you've provided, I tend to think
you're
jumping to a conclusion. It certainly is possible that
Intuit
is getting it wrong, but if so, they're doing it in an
uncommon
and unlikely way.

As far as I know, the OFX specs (that control the way in
which
downloads are done and their content) has always allowed for
downloads from investment financial institutions to contain
"holdings" in addition to transactions. And I think the OFX
spec actually recommends that holdings be provided.

It is the downloaded holdings that contain prices for the
securities held at that institution, and every time I've ever
checked, my downloads do include those holdings (including
the
prices).

The holdings also include an "as of" date, and that date is
not
always the date of the download. I downloaded from Smith
Barney
on April 23rd at about 7:30pm CDT. But my downloaded
holdings
were dated April 22, so the bonds I hold at Smith Barney did
not
get prices for the 23rd. [I did not set the download up as a
test, so I did not check to see if my prices for the 22nd
were
changed as a result of the download.]

I certainly don't attribute that lack of bond prices on the
23rd
to Intuit; if Smith Barney did not provide holdings for the
date
I downloaded, Intuit could hardly have compensated for that.

I may have the *wrong* conclusion but if so it's because what
the tech
told me was wrong, not because I'm jumping to it.

My reply said: "Based solely on the info you've provided"....

Quote:

He was very clear - but maybe incorrect - that prices came
from
Intuit,

I suggest you check with your fi again.

If Quicken/Intuit has access to (and has agreed to provide) bond
prices from a source other than the holdings provided by your
financial institution, it is news to me ... I anxiously await
proof of this assertion.

Quote:

I've never looked looked at the OFX specs so I'm not in a
position to
answer your response with any specifics, but the information
from the
FI clearly goes through the Intuit servers so there's at least
the
possibility the Intuit can insert a price.

The fact that the data passes through Intut's servers doesn't
provide any evidence that Intuit has separate access to bond
prices. Indeed, I think if you do some research, you'll find
that bond prices are jealously guarded by financial institution
.... and no one can download them via Quicken's price download.
Getting bond prices independently from your broker costs money.

I do not believe that Intuit intends to provide independent
access (access not provided by your financial institution) to
bond prices. I welcome legitmate evidence to the contrary.

Quote:

Maybe we should establish a database of prices of widely-held
bonds
from different FI's and see if we can crack the code.

I have no objection to this, or any other, means of finding the
source of a problem. If someone wants to start the ball
rolling, I will contribute whatever I can ... as long as it
doesn't require me to stay up later than I like. :)

But for starters, I suggest that those who are concerned about
not getting bond prices from their fi, can start the ball
rolling. They can stay awake longer than some of us are willing
to, and download from their financial institutions late at
night. It those users download late at night, and do not get
bond prices; let them check their OFXlog to see what the date of
their "holdings" is. It any user finds their downloaded
holdings dated on the date they downloaded, but their bond
prices do not get updated for that same date ... please post
here.

--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup

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