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Andrew DeFaria
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Copy Quicken files from one computer to another? |
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John Pollard wrote:
| Quote: |
My confusion came when the restored database was also QDATA_20080517.*.
This is consistent with the way restores have always worked, in
Quicken and with all other restores I have dealt with.
Then you haven't worked with many backup/restore programs.
I'd add that I don't think creating yet another directory to hold
restored, but not renamed, files would be a net benefit. I
think it would add even more confusion.
The whole concept of "restored" here in this Quicken example is foolish. |
There is no restore happening, there's simply a copying of data. Most
restore processes archive, compress or otherwise change the storage
format of what they are backing up. Take ntbackup for example. You can
use it to back up your whole computer - I do so nightly. What you'll get
on the other end is one large file, which is hardly the same as the
original files.
The Quicken backup process just copies the files from one place to the
other and optionally tacks on a data. Whop T do! The restore does the
copy in the other direction without adding a date. And, of course, the
tiny bit of smarts if you happen to be overwriting an already existing
database.
| Quote: |
Intuit would have had to alter traditional restore procedures to
produce the result you want.
Intuit doesn't have a traditional backup to start with! Hell Intuit |
doesn't even have a traditional database to start with rather a home
grown one that does nobody, save Intuit, any good.
| Quote: |
I don't find Quicken's treatment of the date-suffixed backup files
confusing, but I don't find those files provide any useful
benefits for me either ... and actually they make a lot more work for me.
Indeed. It's not hard to understand with a little poking around. Your |
data, however, all of your data that is, is important and you should
back up all of it. I do, every night, everything on my PC. I also let
Quicken create it's automatic backups as well as backup periodically
when Quicken asks. This way I have a history of backups to try should
something go terribly wrong.
| Quote: |
And for unsophisticated users, the evidence continues to indicate they
clearly pose problems.
Unsophisticated users will always be confused no matter what you do. |
Ignore them! They are that 20% rat hole you can poor all of your
development money into.
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. |
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John Pollard
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Copy Quicken files from one computer to another? |
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Andrew DeFaria wrote:
| Quote: |
John Pollard wrote:
My confusion came when the restored database was also
QDATA_20080517.*.
This is consistent with the way restores have always worked,
in
Quicken and with all other restores I have dealt with.
Then you haven't worked with many backup/restore programs.
|
I'm not sure the number matters, but there have been quite a few
over the years.
| Quote: |
I'd add that I don't think creating yet another directory to
hold
restored, but not renamed, files would be a net benefit. I
think it would add even more confusion.
The whole concept of "restored" here in this Quicken example
is
foolish. There is no restore happening, there's simply a
copying of
data. Most restore processes archive, compress or otherwise
change
the storage format of what they are backing up.
|
Seems to me you're interchanging the terms "backup" and
"restore". "Restore" would "de-compress" the data if the
"backup" had "compressed" it.
But that has nothing to do with the comments I made. My
contention is that both backups and restores are essentially
logical "copies" of the data (so a "restored" file should be an
exact duplicate of the file originally backed up), and that the
"backup" file name, is the name given to the "restored" file ...
regardless of whether there was any data compression utilized in
the backup.
| Quote: |
Take ntbackup for
example. You can use it to back up your whole computer - I do
so
nightly. What you'll get on the other end is one large file,
which is
hardly the same as the original files.
|
Logically: you have exact copies of all the original files. It
may look like one file to Windows, but for all intents and
purposes, it's multiple files to the backup/restore software.
For purposes of my comments in this discussion, it would make no
difference at all if the Quicken backups were compressed: when
the backup is restored, the restored file:
a.) is an exact copy of the originally backed up file (assuming
you've never opened the backup, and it has not been corrupted);
and
b.) has the exact same name as the backup file name.
That is true for every backup/restore in my experience.
One of the reasons I don't care for the Quicken date-suffix
option is the type of problems that have been reported by users
employing it ... without any significant benefit; since as you
have noted, the date a file was created, and the date it was
modified, are already easily available. If you ask Quicken to
"Find Quicken Files", it will list all your Quicken data (QDF)
files (including backups, if desired) with their date/time
stamps. You can get the same info from Windows Explorer, where
you can also sort the results by date/time.
--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup |
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Andrew DeFaria
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Copy Quicken files from one computer to another? |
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John Pollard wrote:
| Quote: |
The whole concept of "restored" here in this Quicken example is
foolish. There is no restore happening, there's simply a copying of
data. Most restore processes archive, compress or otherwise change
the storage format of what they are backing up.
Seems to me you're interchanging the terms "backup" and "restore".
"Restore" would "de-compress" the data if the
"backup" had "compressed" it.
But that's the point - there is no difference between a backed up |
Quicken database and a regular Quicken database.
| Quote: |
But that has nothing to do with the comments I made. My contention is
that both backups and restores are essentially
logical "copies" of the data (so a "restored" file should be an exact
duplicate of the file originally backed up), and that the
"backup" file name, is the name given to the "restored" file ...
regardless of whether there was any data compression utilized in the
backup.
But you see that's the whole point that I was making that you seem to |
miss. It's not that they are 'logical" copies of the data rather they
are *exact* copies of each other. No other backup software that I know
does that - none.
| Quote: |
Take ntbackup for example. You can use it to back up your whole
computer - I do so nightly. What you'll get on the other end is one
large file, which is hardly the same as the original files.
Logically: you have exact copies of all the original files.
No, *actually* you have exact copies of the original files in the case |
of Quicken and not in the case of ntbackup and that's the point I was
making.
| Quote: |
It may look like one file to Windows, but for all intents and
purposes, it's multiple files to the backup/restore software.
Again, this is totally different and in keeping with how most backup |
software or functionality works. Quicken's the odd ball here.
| Quote: |
For purposes of my comments in this discussion, it would make no
difference at all if the Quicken backups were compressed: when the
backup is restored, the restored file: a.) is an exact copy of the
originally backed up file (assuming
you've never opened the backup, and it has not been corrupted); and
b.) has the exact same name as the backup file name.
That is true for every backup/restore in my experience.
No, every backup restore software changes the format of the original |
files into another format. Logically it can recreate the original. In
Quicken's process a mere exact copy is done. That's the odd ball.
| Quote: |
One of the reasons I don't care for the Quicken date-suffix option is
the type of problems that have been reported by users employing it ...
without any significant benefit; since as you have noted, the date a
file was created, and the date it was modified, are already easily
available. If you ask Quicken to "Find Quicken Files", it will list
all your Quicken data (QDF) files (including backups, if desired) with
their date/time stamps. You can get the same info from Windows
Explorer, where you can also sort the results by date/time.
Yes, somebody needs to be hired by Intuit who understands file systems, |
database systems and the like.
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him. |
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John Pollard
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Copy Quicken files from one computer to another? |
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Andrew DeFaria wrote:
| Quote: |
John Pollard wrote:
The whole concept of "restored" here in this Quicken example
is
foolish. There is no restore happening, there's simply a
copying of
data. Most restore processes archive, compress or otherwise
change
the storage format of what they are backing up.
Seems to me you're interchanging the terms "backup" and
"restore".
"Restore" would "de-compress" the data if the
"backup" had "compressed" it.
But that's the point - there is no difference between a backed
up
Quicken database and a regular Quicken database.
|
Logically, it does not matter.
| Quote: |
But that has nothing to do with the comments I made. My
contention
is that both backups and restores are essentially
logical "copies" of the data (so a "restored" file should be
an exact
duplicate of the file originally backed up), and that the
"backup" file name, is the name given to the "restored" file
...
regardless of whether there was any data compression utilized
in the
backup.
But you see that's the whole point that I was making that you
seem to
miss. It's not that they are 'logical" copies of the data
rather they
are *exact* copies of each other. No other backup software
that I know
does that - none.
Take ntbackup for example. You can use it to back up your
whole
computer - I do so nightly. What you'll get on the other
end is one
large file, which is hardly the same as the original files.
Logically: you have exact copies of all the original files.
No, *actually* you have exact copies of the original files in
the case
of Quicken and not in the case of ntbackup and that's the
point I was
making.
It may look like one file to Windows, but for all intents and
purposes, it's multiple files to the backup/restore software.
Again, this is totally different and in keeping with how most
backup
software or functionality works. Quicken's the odd ball here.
For purposes of my comments in this discussion, it would make
no
difference at all if the Quicken backups were compressed:
when the
backup is restored, the restored file: a.) is an exact copy
of the
originally backed up file (assuming
you've never opened the backup, and it has not been
corrupted); and
b.) has the exact same name as the backup file name.
That is true for every backup/restore in my experience.
No, every backup restore software changes the format of the
original
files into another format.
|
A.) You are wrong.
B.) You didn't even address what I said. Your claim does not
matter to the concept of "backup" and the concept of "restore"
A backup is no less a backup just because it is an exact
physical copy of the original file. And a restore is no less a
restore just because the backup file is an exact physical copy
of the original file.
This is the end of my participation in this discussion; it no
longer has any bearing on the original theme, nor any interest
to me.
--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup |
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Andrew DeFaria
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Copy Quicken files from one computer to another? |
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John Pollard wrote:
| Quote: |
But that's the point - there is no difference between a backed up
Quicken database and a regular Quicken database.
Logically, it does not matter.
When attempting to explain it to people who barely grasp the concept in |
the first place - it sure does matter. When attempting to find space for
a backup - it matters. Don't be dense.
| Quote: |
No, every backup restore software changes the format of the original
files into another format.
A.) You are wrong.
I can show you several examples of backups in which backup software |
changes the format of the data from it's original form into some other
form. I can only show you one example where this doesn't happen
(Quicken). Give that, how the hell can you say I'm wrong?
| Quote: |
B.) You didn't even address what I said.
I wasn't aiming to!
Your claim does not matter to the concept of "backup" and the concept
of "restore"
No it matters to the concept of people and their understanding.
A backup is no less a backup just because it is an exact physical copy
of the original file. And a restore is no less a restore just because
the backup file is an exact physical copy of the original file.
So what. That's not what I was talking about. I was merely saying that |
Quicken's backup is, unlike all other backup software that I've
encountered in my 30 years in the business, just a copy of the original
data. It was just a statement, intended to explain what's going on. Why
you trounced in and got all bent out of shape is a mystery.
| Quote: |
This is the end of my participation in this discussion; it no longer
has any bearing on the original theme, nor any interest to me.
Great. |
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Why are cigarettes sold in gas stations when you can't smoke there? |
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